| Lysell Family Tree |
| Robert de la Haye 1 |
Curt Hofemann posted the following to Jim Weber s page regaring Robert: Birth: ABT 1080 in Halnaker, Sussex, England You may wish to change place of birth per below: On page 496 (of Keats-Rohan's Domesday Descendants), the following is written concerning Robert de la Haye: Norman from La Haye-du-Puits, Manche. One of Henry I's new men. Given lands forfeited in Sussex by William de Ansleville, known as the honour of Halnaker. Acquired the Lincolnshire barony of Kolswein by marriage with his granddaughter Muriel, daughter of Picot ..., by whom he had two sons, Richard and Ralph... On the same page, the parents of Richard de la Haye are described as Robert I de la Haye and Muriel of Lincoln. [Ref: Gordon Kirkemo Other notes: Lord of Hanlac, Sussex, parcel of the honor of Arundel; benefactor of the Church of the Holy Trinity at Essay, in Normandy [Ref: Watney #316] On page 181 of the Boxgrove Cartulary is an English version of the History of the Foundation, and Founders' Genealogy (and a note that the original Latin, extended, is given in the Appendix [p. 45] of Rev. J. L. Petit's _The Architectural History of Boxgrove Priory_ [Chichester, 1861], which is not available here). Given that everyone prior to Round (including Stapleton) has messed up the early St. John pedigree, it's amazing that the stem. fund. got it right, in every detail from the time of Robert de Hay: Robert de Haya our founder ...gave his daughter Cecily as wife to Roger de Sancto Johanne ... and of the said Cecily begat William and Robert deSancto Johanne. ... These two brothers gave their sister Muriel as wife to Reynold de Aurea Valle; and of her Reynold begat a daughter, Mabel by name, who was joined in bonds of matrimony to Adam de Port; and of her Adam begat William the second. And he begat Robert, of Godeheld daughter of N. Paynal; and Robert [begat] John, of Agnes daughter of William de Cantilupo. John begat John, or Alice daughter of Reynold fitz-Piers. etc. [Ref: Paul Reed 13 Aug 2003] I also thought I should point out that the Robert de Hay whose daughter Cicely married Roger de St. John (mother of William de St. John the elder, Robert and Muriel), was the same Robert de Hay/Haia who was lord of the barony of Brattleby, Lincolnshire, and had married Muriel, daughter of Colswain, Domesday lord of Brattleby, and sister and heir of Picot. Robert and Muriel also had sons, his son Richard de la Hay succeeding by 1155, and died in 1169, leaving three daughters, Nichola, Julia and Isabel. This Nichola de la Hay we are very familiar with, as she married (1) William fitz Erneis and (2) Gerard de Camville. She outlived her husband, and at her death in 1230, her granddaughter Idoine was her heir (she married William Longespee). [Ref: Paul Reed 14 Aug 2003] And what fun could this be without research notes: Research note 1: While the Camville--de la Haia/Haye kerfuffle was going on I meant and forgot to ask whether anyone here has something to set beside the old Turton ancestry for Robert de la Haye (living 1131, 1134), grandfa. (via Richard) of Nicolaa. Any ideas? I'm fairly content with the account of JFW Hill replacing Turton's idea [127] that Robert's wife Muriel was da. of 'Eudo al Chapel' & 'Muriel de Conteville' with the proposition that she was sister of Picot and da. of Colswein [Medieval Lincoln, 1948, 87-88]. But can it truly be that Robert de la Haye is s. of Ralph de la Haye and Oliva d'Albini, da. of Willima d'Albini and -- de Plessis? And that Ralph is s. of Richard de St Sauveur? (There's a terrible whiff of consanguinity here, if nowt else....) And is the wife of Richard de la Haye (d. bef Jul 1189) and mo. of Nicolaa really Turton's Maud de Vernon? [Ref: Christopher Nash 9 Jul 2002] Research note 2: Turton's listings of Robert's ancestry fails in the 2nd gen. due to chronology. He shows Robert's mother as Odonel d'Albini who's father Wm d'Albini, 3rd Baron of Belvoir (MC Surety) was born after 1146 = 10 years or less before Robert died. Also, Wm d'Albini's wife was Margery d'Umfraville, not "de Plessis" as per Christopher Nash. He did m2 but to Agatha de Trussebut.
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